You’ll hear from an expert panel as they describe their top frameworks and tactics for creating leverage, helping the sales team to help themselves, and generally leveling up the revenue operations function.
- Brad Smith, CEO and Co-Founder
- Pete Kazanjy, co-Founder of Atrium and Founder of Modern Sales Pros
- Alex Miller, Director of Revenue Operations at Mux
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Something to drink. Awesome. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Uh, well again, for those who are just jumping in, uh, welcome. Excited to have everybody here. Um, you know, first and foremost, we have two great folks on here. I’m just sitting here making sure that the, the dots get, uh, or the eyes get dotted and the ts get crossed. So, uh, two of my real close friends, uh, Pete and Alex, uh, they’ll get introduced himself in a second. But really the thing that we wanna accomplish today are you, what are the keys to revenue and the impact with Rev ops? Uh, I think we’re all here and we’re all feeling and seeing this rev ops wave. Um, even perhaps if your company hasn’t actually changed the title from sales ops to rev ops or anywhere in, in, in between there, what we’re realizing is there’s so, uh, an increased amount of technology, an increased amount of focus on process and scaling and efficiency.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
And we really wanna unpack a few of those, uh, components today. So, uh, excited to be here. Uh, as always, we love people participating, so if you have questions, drop them into the, the q and a section. That’s one of my responsibilities to make sure that we get those answered for you. Uh, but otherwise, we’ll, uh, we’ll be able to turn the mics over to the guys that actually know what we’re talking about here, other than me. Um, Pete and Alex, uh, again, pump to have you both here. Uh, Pete, I’ll let you kick off on a, a quick intro of yourself and Atrium and msp.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, for sure. Um, hey folks, my name’s Pete Kaji. I’m one of the founders of Atrium, makers of data, data-driven sales management software. And, um, as Brad also notes, I’m one of the founders of, uh, modern Sales Pros, the nation’s largest, uh, sales leadership operations and enablement, pure education communities. And, um, just a big all around sales nerd. As you can kind of see from my, my hat here, when I grabbed this this morning on the way out the door, I didn’t even think about it. So, um, I’m really excited to talk, uh, with you all today about leverage in revenue operations because I think a lot of organizations have a, uh, you know, a single do-it-all, all singing, all dancing, uh, revenue operations person trying to bring order to chaos, which is what, how I like to describe what Revenue Operations does. And, and so I’m excited for, to kind of talk about how that single all, all singing, all dancing, uh, Salesforce janitor, as Alex likes to say, um, can get leverage and have super high impact, even with very scarce resources, scarce time, resources, scarce, um, scarce, budgetary resources, it’s et cetera.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
So, stoked to see you guys.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Absolutely. The one thing Pete’s not gonna do is tout himself and, uh, unplug his own book, which I personally have right here on my, uh,
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Oh, you nerd.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I’m total nerd. Cause I, I actually read it almost every, some sort of nugget. But, uh, if you haven’t had a chance to check out Pete book, do it. Especially if you are in the startup world, founder of world, um, immensely valuable. So I wouldn’t let you get away without plugging that. So I
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Get it on my table too. It’s just out of reach, otherwise I’d grab it.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
But it’s great. You flyer, you have it, you have it underneath a, a leg on your, on your coffee table that it’s broken <laugh>,
Speaker 3 (03:03):
He dog ate. Sorry,
Speaker 1 (03:05):
People have called you this close army knife, so it’s multifaceted. So
Speaker 2 (03:08):
<laugh>. That’s right. It’s very heavy.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, absolutely. Pete Pump to have you here, obviously. Uh, Alex I’ll turn the, the floor over to you. Let’s you introduce yourself as well.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Yeah. So, hey everyone. Uh, Alex Miller. I’m the Director of Revenue Operations at Sendo. Uh, for those of you guys who haven’t heard of Sendo, so Sendo helps companies engage, convert, and retain customers with strategic sending and gifting. There’s lots of fun stuff with swag, things like there as I see Pete Gill, fancy hands. Awesome, uh, a little bit about company said it. Uh, we’re just over foreign employees, mostly here, uh, in the Bay Area and also in Scottsdale, Arizona. Um, there I lead rev ops. So, uh, I look after all ops from everything from sales development to sales, to account management to customer success. So everything from top of funnel funnel up to bottom of, bottom of funnel. Uh, been there now for just under two years. So time is surely flying. So, uh, first thing I just wanna say is I’m stoked to be staring the shades, uh, with two liters from two tools that have been pretty central to our rev op stack here at Sendo for a while now.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Uh, we’ve been both interim and stone our customers and frankly, it’s gotten me out of a couple pinches. So, uh, more than happy to share, uh, some of those, uh, today. And the last shameless plug, I have to throw it out there cause I have the mic right now, is we are hiring for rev ops as we speak. So if you guys like what you hear, please come talk to me. Uh, I’m growing my team and uh, if anyone out there, uh, is looking for a new challenge, we should definitely be chatting. Like, ping me on LinkedIn, like now, we’ll, we’ll have a chat.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
<laugh>, man, I would love to work on, on Alex’s rev ops team.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Oh, like the fun part for you and
Speaker 2 (04:34):
My, I’m thinking <laugh>.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, the fun part is we actually do get to work on his rev ops team just in a different capacity. So yeah. Fair
Speaker 2 (04:41):
<laugh>. Fair enough. I
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Know I’ll, I’ll speak for Pete on this one cause I know we’re both mutual. Um, Sendo, so customers as well. Uh, even Nick, uh, one of y’all’s sales leaders that I’ve come pretty close with over the last couple months, drinks his own champagne, sends me books all the time from Sendo. So, so, uh, awesome to give him a shout out and tell him thank you. Yeah. But dude, we’re gonna dive in. Um, and again, I I can’t stress this enough to the folks that are participating. Um, while we will do probably the majority of the talking, we want to hear from you as well. Please, uh, don’t hesitate to drop q and a in comments in, um, you know, we’re happy to dive in this, we put these sessions on so that, uh, not necessarily that we talk the entire time, but that we help you answer some of the problems that you’re facing right now as well.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So, uh, that being said, guys, let’s, uh, strap in, buckle up and, and, and we’re going <laugh>. Um, so we have four main topics today, and we’re gonna go through each one of them. Uh, this first topic all begins with prioritizing. And as someone who, uh, gets to fortunately help a lot of customers like Alex work through some of the things that they have to prioritize, this is a constant, I would almost call it common denominator for rev ops teams. How do we go about prioritizing and focusing on, uh, what matters? Pete, I’m gonna start with you and let you, uh, jump in here and we’ll, we’ll pass it over to, to Miller after that.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, for sure. So the, one of the metaphors that I like to use with, um, for revenue operations, sales operations is the notion of like the product management function for your revenue team. And so if you, if you then kind of extend that metaphor along, you say, oh, okay, so, so it’s kind of like you’re, it’s kinda like the product management plus engineering team. Well, so that means that we have to just be, just like when we’re developing our product, whether it’s sendo or Atrium or sonar, we have to be intentional about like, what are the most important things? Like what are the most important features we gotta ship? What are the gnarliest bugs we have to retire? Um, and then put our time against that stuff accordingly. And so the way that I like to do that from a revenue, um, you know, revenue operations project standpoint is just making sure that you’re doing a good job of like, like bucketing things.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Like these are the things that we need to do. And then actually time back boxing the stuff on the calendar in order to ensure that that’s happening. Right? And this is something that I do with my reps all the time. I make them what we call painting the calendar. So they, like, they have all their meetings on there, but also they’re allocating time on their calendar to other things like pre-call planning and follow up, but also pipeline management, things like that from a revenue operations standpoint, just making sure like, okay, cool, this is the three hours that I’m going to, that I am gonna have blocked on a recurring basis in order to do Salesforce administrative tasks. Or this is the two hours that I’m gonna have blocked in order to like, go through the, the different metrics harnesses that we have in place and kind of, and, and look for problems that then I can push out to the managers or what have you.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
But like, what the reality is is that we’ve only got 40 or 50 hours in a week, right? And as we like to say on my sales team, calendar is destiny. So then just like p like slicing it up cuz then you can look in the past and say, what did I spend all my time on? And also what you’re doing is you’re allocating those time resources to the things that are the most important. And if you look back and it turns out that you’re spending a lot of time on like bullshit <laugh>, you can point at it and be like, cool, I’m not doing this anymore cuz I’ve gotta implement C P Q or whatever. So timeboxing and good calendar management is the way that I like to think about that.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Oh, that’s so spot on. I think the hard part for a lot of folks is they typically have to learn not the hard way, and it’s when mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they don’t actually manage their calendar the right way. They get overwhelmed and soon too much and yeah, it’s, it’s chaotic. So, um, you’re spot on. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Alex, Alex, what is your, uh, what does your slack inbox look like right now?
Speaker 3 (08:26):
<laugh>? Yeah, it, it, I like try to and like nights and weekends, like get my unread email count down to like 200 and then you come in on Monday morning, it’s like back to 300. But, um, slack’s, yeah, it’s just a different inbox. But, um, I couldn’t agree more with what Brad and Pete said. If anything, like I felt on a molecular level, the, uh, the pain that is not protecting your own calendar and your own focus and your own bandwidth. Uh, a couple years back I had the, the, my company at the time, um, sent all engineers and then they grabbed like a handful of other folks in the company to send through scrum training and it was super fascinating process to go through mm-hmm. <affirmative> to just see like, you know, how do you developer teams which are, you know, known for like radical focus, um, just execution, you know, putting a moat around what you’re trying to focus on and make sure that nothing crosses that boat interrupts you.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I don’t think it’s like the perfect way of rev ops, cuz of course like rev ops is you’re the firefighter, like stuff’s gonna flying outta left field that you don’t plan for. Um, but I think nonetheless, like just kind of keeping focused on what’s important, um, and making sure that you have time to actually execute on those things that are important is huge. Um, funny enough, like I I like probably a year ago got really fanatical about blocking time on my calendar for my own focused work. Um, and here’s a hack. If you guys are a Google shop, you can actually set those calendar blocks you put on your calendar so that you’re out of office so that any incoming calendar invite over that time automatically gets declined. And like I, I used to make a really savage Yeah. I used to make a really snarky, uh, like calendar, um, event title, which is like, if you block over this, you’re telling Alex he doesn’t get to eat lunch today.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
And then that’s also stopped people from booking over it <laugh>. Um, but uh, you know, jokes aside, I think like you have to protect your own focus. You have to keep the edge sharp and um, you know, if you don’t, what happens is then you’re working, like your work is actually done between like six and 10:00 PM or like on Sundays. And like that’s, that’s not a recipe for success. Like that’s how you personally don’t scale. That’s how you burn out. And especially if you’re leading a team, you know, or if you’re a one man shop, like, you know, there are a lot of people that are depending on you to be like top focus and uh, you know, that type of burnout leads to some bad outcomes that you won’t discuss here. Um, but of course, uh, like you owe it to yourself and your company to keep that time sacred.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Absolutely. One of the things that I take away from that, I was taking notes cuz I’m trying to sit here and learn from you guys right now, taking that product management mindset. Um, Pete obviously mentioned that and doing the Timeboxing Miller, yours was interesting too, cuz even with the out of office hack, the one thing that I, I take common denominator away from all of this stuff is the, is the hardest thing to learn how to do, but it’s the polite way to say no. And I think if there’s anything in this role, you have to be able to say no, you’ll learn quickly stub your toe the hard way by saying yes too often and you’re just over consumed and overwhelmed. But the, uh, the the polite way to say no is, is such a key factor. Um, totally.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And I’ll add one thing to that is, um, kind of back to that scrum mentality, uh, and a big part of like how a scrum team works. They keep a really groomed backlog of just like, here are all the requests. Yeah. All the things that we’re tracking on our radar. Here’s everything that if we had an extra day a week, we’d probably start chipping away at, um, yeah. And like with my team is we’ve grown like we’ve, we’ve had to like really be, you know, fanatical about like, you know, hey, every single request that comes inbound is not something that we’re gonna drop everything and go work on. So like what gives people confidence is saying, Hey, okay, we’ve got it, it’s in our backlog, we’re tracking it, we’ve got a someone assigned to it, there’s probably a data sign there. Um, and if you do that right, you can use that as essentially a shield to say, say, and I joked, uh, Pete and I had talked about this recently, which is like, if someone comes to you and they’re like, Hey, I need this asap, you can be like, well here, great, here’s where it sits in the backlog.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
And like, if you’re telling me that this task is more important than the CROs task is sitting in front of you, like I’m, I’m happy to have that conversation, but it’s probably not gonna end very well <laugh>. Um, but, but it springs transparency around like, hey, it’s not like people are throwing stuff in rev ops and they’re like, man, what’s going on? I haven’t heard anything from them. It’s like, if you could keep that, and maybe that’s in Asana, it could be in a Google sheet, honestly, just something that, you know, folks can see like, okay, cool, you’re on it, you’re tracking it. I see what you’re working on right now. We’ll get to this in the next, you know, in the week, the month, you know, structure thought stuff in sprints if you want to. But, uh, yeah, I think like transparency’s key and that helps you say no because of course people are like, okay, it’s not no, no, it’s just no not now. Uh, and they can kind of see how that progresses and changes.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Where do, where do you track that right now? Alex? What do you use for that?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
We’re kind of, rev ops is like this funny like, uh, team that, you know, you have one group that uses Asana, you have a different group that we work with that uses Trello. Like you kind of have different project management, you’re in
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, we’re kind of in everybody’s right now. Um, we’re a hope for us as we get into the second half of this year is to start consolidating that. And like, I like using Asana myself. So just trying to keep something at one place where we’re not, uh, you know, playing project management dejo about what tool we’re using. But, uh, Asan is a great tool. And it doesn’t have to be something you pay for though, like a spreadsheet works just fine.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah, yeah. It’s, yeah, it’s less about the tool and it’s more about the consistency of like the actual sprint planning where’re just like, here’s the backlog and let’s go shopping for things and pull it into the, into the current thing. Oh yeah. How do you do that? Oh, by making sure that you have a recurring meeting on the calendar to do that. Because cuz calendar’s destiny turns out.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
What a great segue back into that. Actually, I’m gonna now segue talking about, uh, tools. Because one thing that, you know, we talk about, one, we have to have the right principles in mind to be able to go and execute these things, have the right foundations of being able to say no, um, being candid with your team, being transparent and showing them, whether it be in a project management tool, a spreadsheet, anything like that. But really on a, on a rev op side, empowering yourself with the right tools is gonna be key. And we all know what the other side of this looks like. You can have tool overload and you can have too many things and it becomes noisy and cumbersome. So, um, you know, Alex, we’re gonna start with you. But when you think of your journey, especially of, of owning Rev ops versus Doso for so long and building into what you currently have now, and again building your team out. Anybody that’s out there wanting to talk to Alex again, jump on us, uh, LinkedIn, but when do you think about empowering yourself and your team with the right tools? Where do you start?
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, and I think when I think about our stack at sendo, so like, you know, we’re in this awesome MarTech space of which there are lots of vendors that are customers of ours, we’re customers of theirs. It is just led to us having a pretty full stack. And I think what’s been more of the rewarding parts about working at a company that has a full stack is we’re looking at all the different ways that you can stitch things together. Um, but of all the tools we have in our stack, we don’t have a lot that are, I’d say on our rev op team and really facing, we have a lot of outwardly facing tools of which we admin for for other teams. Um, you know, and some of those tools, you know, no surprise, atrium and Stone are two being very central. Ones are ones that we use to keep like our own team in check.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Um, and and the way I think about that is, is the following. Like, you know, we’re looking at tools that help us that well above our headcount. Meaning like, you know, right, we’re not a company that’s gonna go out and hire a team full of Salesforce admins. Like that’s just not, that’s just not where we’re at in our growth. Uh, nor would that be productive, frankly. So, you know, we, we lean heavily on technology to help keep our team focused and, and frankly like make us just super efficient at what we do. Um, you know, I think when I look at what Sonar does for us, it lets like, you know, uh, you know, no surprise, like we actually don’t have folks on our team that are like Salesforce system architects, um, but like using a tool like Sonar, lets,
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Are there a lot of, are, are there a lot of places that like, there’s not a lot of people, they’re not a lot of those humans out there and they’re working at consulting shops, <laugh>
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Totally. A hundred percent. So, you know, what tools like Seminar do is it helps our team, uh, make sure that when we are doing things, we’re doing things efficiently. And what I mean by that is like just making sure that, hey, we’re gonna do this. It’s not gonna break something else somewhere else. Because what that happens in is just like this compounding snowball of like, you know, oh shit, we came in here to do something very easy, or what was seemingly very simple and all of a sudden now, like we lost the rest of the day or sometimes the rest of the week just of like fixing all the cascading impacts of what seemed on the surface be a very, very small tweak. So when I think of, um, you know, how do we empower our team, part of it’s like making sure that we have visibility and just like, frankly, like letting us know that we can like peer behind the curtain and see what’s going on behind the scenes with confidence that like, okay, if we change this, like it’s not gonna ruin our week because it’s not gonna break anything else.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Um, and I think about like shift, kinda shifting gears from like our own internal tech stack. Um, you know, we have and have been like atrium’s been at Sendo so longer than I have. Uh, so it’s cool cuz we have all this historical data that’s been, uh, living in here that, and frankly speaking, like keeps us working officially on the op side because so many of the reporting that we pull out of Atrium is stuff that I would’ve, otherwise there’s someone on our team would be building manually. Like, okay, here comes again like the same Salesforce request, so let’s go back and build something around win range. Like what does ramp time look like for different reps? I’m sure we’ll talk more about that in a little bit. But, um, you know, frankly just having a tool that frankly like gives us easier access to the answers we need, um, keeps us focused on whatever that next task is.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Um, and I think like, you know, I look at these two tools as something that has probably had a, um, amplifying effect across like our ops teams, just because again, we can actually get more done with fewer people because we have these tools that are propping us up. So I’ll come up for air here for a second cuz I know Pete’s probably got some great insights on this as well. But, um, now I think when you think about tools, uh, in general, like don’t be afraid to go to your cro whoever ops reports to and say like, Hey, you know, we wanna spend money on a tool that helps our internal ops teams. Like there’s a very indirect benefit that that brings to all of reps and other folks on the across team. I mean, atrium is a little bit more, uh, let’s say say, uh, non ops, uh, facing. Um, but I think you can’t shy away from like investing in tools to help your own team because that’s what makes all the other tools work better.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah. Dropping mic there. The, yeah, I, I think the thing that we end up seeing, like, it’s a little weird with us because, you know, atrium as a data driven sales management software, on the one hand it’s designed to like make managers, you know, SDR managers, AE managers, et cetera. Like as sales nerdy as, as all of us <laugh> kind of like rev ops nerds. So, but, but on the flip side though, it’s also kind of one of those things where like, you know, revenue operations person, like when they can jump in there, it’s, you know, it, it kind of gives them super powers as well because like they know exactly what it is that they’re looking for and they, they can just pivot things very quickly, um, as compared to, you know, your traditional, um, bi like a, you know, a Tableau or a mode or, you know, Google sheets or what have you.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
And, and so I like, I find myself doing this like crazy where, um, you know, I wanna like ask a question for like, you know, um, about like what we were just saying, like, you know, what’s driving a win rate problem for this rep? And then you want to get under that and you wanna get into the conversion rates. I’m like, I could do that. It would take me in the sales force, it would probably take me like six hours or what have you. Or alternatively I could do like six clicks right in, in Atrium and kind of debug on that. Right? Um, like I remember when the covid, uh, you know, COVID was hitting the fan last year, one of the things that um, a bunch of our customers were like, oh my goodness, oh my goodness, is this like negatively impacting our business?
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Um, cuz like we’ve gotta a, we gotta pivot accordingly if, if so, and maybe think about like personnel changes and what have you. And so I remember doing this with a couple of our, of our customers just to kind of be all hands on deck, being able to like throw together some quick dashboards really quickly that were topical. Like, oh, okay, well, like let’s look at the leading of the leading indicators here. Is our first meeting volume deteriorating? Is our opportunity advancement or conversion rate deteriorating? And for some organizations it was like, oh yeah, it is. Oh, oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, you’re in the travel business. Oh yeah, it is. And then for other organizations it wasn’t deteriorating at all. But because we were able to do that analysis like, you know, in a half hour, an hour, which would’ve like otherwise taken like two days to do those, those organizations could then move on to making the case, oh, we don’t actually have to riff a bunch of our sales team or, or what have you. And so that’s kind of one of the things that’s ends up being really nice there is that you have like a, when you have a Swiss Army knife in your back pocket there that like, you as, as somebody who’s like a really compelling roos person can, can jump into it, can be very high leverage, even outside of course making such that the sales managers can serve themselves. So it’s pretty fun.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, one thing that I’m sure we all talk about this, and Pete, you and I have riffed on this so much when, when selling into, uh, a red Ops persona, right? Like one, if you’re ever gonna be selling anything, a car, a house, whatever, it’s, you have to scratch an itch for somebody. Like what is it that’s making them drive and what’s, what’s happening with ’em, especially in software. Like nobody’s a a fool to this, it all comes down to ROI and mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, Alex, you mentioned this, and I’m gonna paraphrase a little bit and kind of segue this into a new way of thinking for roi, rev ops, keep me honest, Alex, I don’t think you have a quota. Is is not revenue generating, right? Like you’re not actually going out closing deals. Yeah,
Speaker 3 (21:00):
We’re tied, we’re tied of the department and that’s when when they win, we win. We’re part of the team.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Exactly. So you have to start shifting this ROI mentality of, of so many people’s ROI mentality is dollar in, dollar out, right? And we can still get to that dollar out, but there’s a middle part of this equation, especially for rev ops, which is dollar in minute out. How much more efficient can we be? Yeah. Can, again, we’re mostly lean teams. PE you were just talking about this as well. Um, and how can we actually start to see the maximization of those minutes out? I can go run a quick dashboard in Atrium, see exactly what the business needs to pivot to, or if we need to make a decision or we stay on course, this is perfect. But again, you have to start adding this new, uh, it’s not one plus one equals two. It could be one plus one plus one equals three, which is that time saving in the middle of it, because that’s our biggest ally. It’s our biggest, uh, you know, tool in our tool belt is how much time we have. We’re talking about that in the first part of this, right? Protect your calendar. So I think ultimately you have to kind of keep that mentality of it.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah. I mean a a rev ops headcount is like, you know, a competent rev ops headcount is not cheap, right? Depending on where you are in the country anywhere between like, you know, a hundred, $150,000 a year just for like a, you know, an individual contributor. And so if you have a situation where like, I don’t know, you’re like, <laugh> CPQ is a great like whipping boy, um, if you’re deploying C PQ or you’re like changing something in the CRM or something in your martex stack and lo and behold you like do something that like blows up your next day or like blows up two days or what have you. Like that’s serious <laugh>, right? Like let’s, let’s say that that’s, uh, you know, let’s say that that’s 50 $50 an hour or a hundred dollars an hour in, um, you know, in salary expense and you just like, you know, nuked out two days or three days.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Like what, what would you, what would you pay in order to avoid that sort of sort of situation in the future? And it’s kind of a no-brainer, right? It’s more of an insurance thing, which yes. Is a little bit more of like a nuanced thing, but I could totally, Ima like, I’m obviously not a sonar sales rep, but I, um, but I am reading the Qualified Sales Leader by John McMahon, which is all about like medic methodology and kinda like force management. And you could totally imagine like the sales conversation there where it’s like, cool, like what are the negative consequences of it? Can you remember a time when this happened? And, and then of course they’re like, oh yeah, there was that time when I took down the crm. Yep. Cool. Well, what would be the positive benefits of that not having happened? Hmm. Those are probably pretty substantial <laugh>. Pretty,
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Pretty, uh, yeah, pretty impactful. I mean, let’s be honest, y’all both heard it. One of the biggest kettles moments for me starting Sonar was wiping 18 million out of Terminus. Oops. Took everybody offline for a pretty long period of time, had to restore some stuff, how to make it static. And it’s not only at that point, to your point, Pete, where it’s like, you know, associate a bill rate to it for one person, no associate that bill rate to the go to market team. So we’re actually about to shift to oh yeah, how do we, uh, empower them, but it’s costly. So yeah, what do you pay using systems like Sonar and Atrium to keep these things, you know, on the tight, tight guardrails. So, um, beautiful segue there. Now we’ve, we’ve worked about empowering yourself and, and the rev ops leader for, um, your four, your team. How do we shift to empowering the sales team? And, and we’ll, we’ll start with you, but, um, this is a big one because there’s a, a lot of factors at scale here. A lot of efficiencies we have to look at, but yeah, how do you empower your sales team? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah. So I think that the biggest thing, one of the biggest sources of leverage for Rev ops team is, um, is like tooling and like documentation to, in order to facilitate like devolution democratization. So like get it off of your plate such that somebody else can like, do it themselves. And so, um, you know, I’m a former product marketer and former product manager by trade, so I’m a big documentation fan. So like, whether it’s Google Docs, um, especially rather than somebody coming back and be like, how do I do this X, Y, Z A thing? Again, it’s like, cool, make sure that there’s a Google Doc on it or make sure that they’re, I’m actually, I’m the guru card, uh, Nazi in our organization. So anytime there’s a question implement, like, you know, bust out a goo uh, guru card, it starts just so people can start self-serving themselves rather than <laugh> u using the, you know, the, the most annoying form of FAQ in the world Slack, um, and, uh, <laugh>.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
And so I think that that’s a really important thing is like always kind of be proactively thinking about like, what can I devolve and what can I keep get to get in other people’s hands? The way that we see that happening a lot with Atrium is when you have, say you’ve, you’ve, like, you’ve got a revenue operations person and you’re trying to support four, six, um, sales managers, what have you, that can add up to a bunch of, of analytics requests, right? And that can also be a lot of, of reps under those in order to, to kind of like monitor. And so one of the kind of the highest impact things that we find when we’re talking with our customers is, oh, you’re telling me that, that this software is usable enough and proactive enough for a sales manager who’s, you know, a recently promoted account executive who <laugh> doesn’t speak sales math necessarily, but like they can, they can understand kind of the meet and potatoes of how many customer facing meetings the reps are having, how many like new opportunities are flowing into their, their, those reps pipeline.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You know what everybody’s win rate is all the sort of important leading indicators. Like they can do that on their own and they don’t meet need me to be sales nerding it for them. Okay, cool. That’s pretty powerful. Right? And then of course the manager’s like it too because like, let’s be honest, um, as much as they love hanging out with re with revenue operations, I mean, I think asking, kind of coming, continually coming back to the well and being like, so remember that thing I asked you about 60 days ago? I’m here to ask you about it again. Like they don’t, they feel bad about that <laugh>. Right? Um, and and so to the, like this can be a, you know, a very, um, harmonious win-win where you can enable these folks to have new muscles and allow them to do data-driven management on their own team without revenue operations involvement. Well, phenomenal. Because then they can do that, they’ll have better outcomes, and then you can spend more of your time breaking the CRM and taking down the revenue stack. Right, Brad?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Absolutely. Well, what’s, there’s two really good analogies I’ve heard recently, and I never would’ve thought about it in this concept. Uh, but place to your point very well, Pete Rev ops is almost like referees in a sporting event. Sure. The best referees are gonna be the ones that have the game running smoothly. And it’s not the one where you have to go argue with a referee or now they have to go to the tape and review. They’re making all the right calls, they’re actually like facilitating the whole game. And it’s, if the best res in the world are the ones that are behind the scenes and you don’t know their names, you don’t, you know, there’s not a camera on them for 45 minutes, like watching a tape review or something. So it’s, uh, right. It was a really interesting analogy, but, um, Alex, like from your team perspective, as it even continued to growing, you’re still empowering your sales team. Um, curious to get your thoughts on how you, how you go about that.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yeah, I think, um, and Pete kind of touched on this a little bit there. There’s obvious, we’ve already talked a lot about like, what can you get off rev ops plate? And I think there’s a lot of tools that can, you know, help reps, uh, self-service things. But I think when you zoom out and you’re like, well, why do you need to self-serve something? It’s, it’s, you know, I like to think of it as a way of like teaching reps how to run their own business. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it’s like, Hey, you on a, on a, you know, a mi a micro and macro level should understand like, what are the inputs, you know? Yeah. Misses new hire ae that, like, you should know, like what the inputs are that should make you successful. And like, that’s the type of step that you should be measuring yourself against.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
And you know, obviously there’s a, you know, atrium helps us do that tremendously. And just looking at like a lot of these like, you know, new meeting loads or like, are you taking a lot of first meetings? Are you taking more second meetings? You know, how does RAMP look like? Here’s how you’re trending in your first, you know, month in the role relative to your peers. There’s a lot of that stuff that I think we can self-service and, and frankly, likes would not be able to do. We wouldn’t be able to measure that. We need like a full-time analyst who would just sit there and like continuously crank like a bunch of Salesforce reports for different members of the team. Um, but I think when you can kind of teach reps how to run their own business, um, but also make like insights visible for like, okay, if you’re a new hire, you’re probably looking at who was at the top of the dashboard last week, and like, you want to know what they do and you wanna make sure that you’re doing those same things.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
So, um, you know, we, you know, have, have, uh, you know, built a cool culture, I guess, of like transparency on our sales department. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and this isn’t unique to sales. I think same thing for SDRs, something for post-sales, just like, you know, a transparency culture of just being open around metrics and like, you know, there’s no, like what your best rep is doing shouldn’t be a secret, uh, to the rest of the team. Like, that’s just a, that’s a pretty bad culture. Um, and I think, you know, what Rev ops can do, do, um, you know, on a zoom out base is just kind of like lead by example. So like one thing that I do, I did it this morning at eight 30 in the morning every single Tuesday, and I’ve been doing this now for two years. I would do a metrics review with the entire sales department.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Uh, a lot of those are like screenshots and straight off of atrium dashboards, um, of like, you know, here’s what Oppel looks like right now across the department and, you know, here’s what some of the hustle metrics are saying. So you kinda get this culture of like reviewing data, um, you know, in a regular recurring basis. Like, they’re like, man, if Alex is like talking about these metrics and like, I don’t look very good on those dashboards, like maybe I should go figure out like what’s going on behind those metrics and let me kind of run my own business then as ae to go clean that up a bit. Um, so I think a lot of just, you know, making sure that data’s open and available is a huge part of that. And like, you know, if you’re not an Atrium customer, like, you know, put a bunch of Salesforce supports in a Google Doc or like, you know, be said, if you use a tool like Guru, just be like, Hey, here’s some of like core basic inputs.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Like here’s how many meetings you have week over week and just make that stuff available. I mean, obviously atrium’s a tremendous tool to make that, uh, you know, not only do you get the data, you actually get the insights and lead indicators and all that good stuff. Um, but, uh, one of the other things that, that I think is really cool, and this is more of a personal example from Sendo, um, is just like, you know, being open about where things aren’t going well. I think, uh, it’s really easy when you like review metrics. You’re like, oh yeah. And like, you know, demos fell off last week, let, let’s just go to the next one and not talk about it. Uh, and I think for us, like mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, we do that as a department, but then, uh, you mentioned one of our sales managers Nick, um, a really cool thing that Nick does with his team and then we’ve now brought this, the entire department is we, we call it film review.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
So it’s, it’s pulling in like, you know, grab, um, grab a gong call that like you didn’t really think went very well and like review with the whole team and have people rip it to shred. It’s like there’s nothing like having your top rep have a call ripped apart by like the rest of their team. And I think, you know, it puts some wind to the sails of every folks. It’s like, oh yeah, like, you know, top of the dashboard’s not perfect and like, you know, I’m doing some things pretty cool too and you know, we’ve married like Gong data with Atrium data and just made the data more available. And I think, you know, when you’re, when you’re self-critical, I think that’s where the learning happens. And um, yeah, I’ll come up for air here for a second again, but like, just data transparency like is kind of the end all be all to make sure that people know like what are the inputs that drive the right outputs? Do I have access to those? Can I see those regularly? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (31:56):
The, yeah, we, um, oh, just really quickly on the gong thing. So we actually just shipped the Gong integration with Atrium the other day and we’ve been using the heck out of it in our, our own sales team. It’s actually hilarious cuz they only have eight sales reps, not a lot of sales reps, right? But really quickly, like one of the first implementations that we saw, or one of the first, um, versions of what we, uh, kind of MVPs was the Gong Talk, um, talk listen ratio kpi that now is pipe piping into Atrium. And very quickly, like, and of course we could just like manipulate it really quickly, we can see you speaking of like the, the, um, the top of the leaderboard where we have two reps who are just like super chatter boxes <laugh> and you can see it. It’s so, it’s like so much higher.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
And so we’ve been, as a result, we’ve now been coaching on that. But like, and I put together two little dashboards from ‘EM and set goals on it. So now Atrium’s chattering at them and be like, cool, your talk ratio is still over 60 <laugh> it’s still over 60. And so one of, one of them’s doing a really good job. You can see hers is like, because she’s really like focusing on like, biting her tongue and like letting customers talk, talk a lot more. The other one’s like this behavior change is maybe a little bit lagging. There. We’re still work, we’re still working on that. But the point is, is that you have exactly that sort of devolution and empowerment happening where now the individuals can kind of self-manage cuz they have access to that and, and they’re like, you know, at the end of the day or at the end of the week, they’re coming back to it and they’re just like, oh, okay, it is lower. It’s fantastic. Right, yeah. Takes load off of me as a manager.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yep. Well I love it. The, the thing I take away from, especially what you brought up Alex, like we do that same thing here too. And candidly it’s on our calendar on Friday afternoons, it’s called Sales Team Point and Laugh. And it’s, uh, we, we, we picked the, which funny story the first time my wife like saw that on my counter, she’s like, Brad, that’s not really that professional. I was like, actually it wasn’t me, it was, uh, Tyler, y’all know Tyler Bliss on our team. She’s like, that was his thing. <laugh> something they’ve done forever. But it is, and it, it’s empowering cuz you, you sit there as a team and yes, we’re, we’re kind of poking in front of each other, but you’re learning like you’re learning more from the mistakes you make than probably the successes you have. And so if you’re able to do that as a team, it’s, it’s perfect.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
So, um, and the last thing too, and we’ll go on to the last topic, Miller, that you were pointing out, um, was really, it, it it can be, um, sorry, the, the teaching the other people how to own their own business. I love that. Yeah. Because the more you can empower them to think ahead, like, man, I’m coming up for pipeline review on Wednesday, I’m sure I’m gonna get beat up. Well actually you’re not gonna get beat up. You have access to exactly what you’re gonna look at. Like, think about your own business number, what is your new boss gonna ask you about it? Um, it’s just forward thinking. This is the biggest thing. So, uh, but that being said, I know we’re, we’re saying mostly on track guys, which I was kind of surprised to be honest when it comes over our timeframe of everything. Um, but the, the last project that we’ll talk about is accelerating new team members and we’ll, we’ll go pretty quickly, but, um, one of the biggest things is we all scale all of our companies respectively. We wanna make sure new team members across the board are ramping the right way. Um, Pete, I know this is, uh, uh, a big thing for, uh, for Atrium, but I’m actually gonna start with Alex on this one. Uh, he’s thinking about ramping and then we’ll, uh, we’ll let you wrap it up.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah. So, um, when I think about new team members, there’s a couple different ways of viewing it, right? Like we have a lot of new reps coming aboard. Um, but think more importantly, recently we’ve had new members of the sales leadership team come aboard. Like we just recently hired head of enterprise sales who started at the beginning of the year. I know right now we’re actually actively hiring for, uh, a new manager for our s smb uh, AE team, which, um, I’m super excited about. But, uh, you know, historically, you know, whether it’s been at Sendo or previous companies, like I’ve gone through the fun exercise when you have a new, um, sales manager come aboard, there’s just a ton of data asked or like, I need to know like who my top people are. I need to know like who the bottom people are.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Like how does the sales process work? Like how do things convert through the funnel? Like in, and, and I joke, um, you know, how many times if anybody on, on the line in ops, like how many times have you heard a new sales manager come aboard and they’re like, oh, we’re gonna be best friends, like to that to you know, you and ops, and they’re just like, I have a lot of questions. Can I go ahead and book like a daily standing recurring meeting with you every day for the next two months while, uh, I’m just gonna come with a lot of data questions. Um, which is, you know, it’s healthy, it’s normal. Like I frankly would hope that a new manager comes in there and just like, okay, I need to get my arms around, like what are the data points that drive the team?
Speaker 3 (36:13):
And I think having a tool like Atrium has been absolutely phenomenal for this, for new leadership. And of course the same would apply for actually bringing on new reps. I think at a management level there’s like an amplifying effect of saying, you know, how do you really run through? Um, you know, or how do you just know, like on your new team, like who are the top performers that, like you wanna study what they do, but like maybe not interfere? Who are the bottom performers? What’s the delta between those groups? You know, what does RAMP look like? Like who’s behind ramp and who can you contribute quickly to, to help get things back on track? I think those are the types of things that, um, are hugely impactful. Like just having access to, to easy data, you know, just insights at their fingertips. Um, in like, I’ve worked, let’s just say in, in new orgs and new roles, absent a tool like ATR M where like you have a new manager come aboard and you’re just like, oh man, like block, block my calendar for the next like week because it’s just gonna be like constant slack messages.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
Um, and it’s a good thing to be very clear. It’s like this is why you hire fresh blood is to have these questions and need insights. But, you know, the opportunity costs of course can be pretty big of saying like, you know, Hey, help a new manager for the next, uh, month straight. Um, you know, we’ve got a lot of other stuff going on. So, you know, I think about new manager coming aboard, just having easy access to data is what gets them ramped quickly, which I think is huge. Uh, when I look more selfishly like at our own team and like hiring an ops, I think, um, you know, it’s funny, we actually just brought a board, uh, a brand new member of our team wants to go to do customer success operations, shout out to Joel. Nice. And, um, you know, one of the first things that, you know, I gave him was like, Hey, like here’s Sona.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Like log in, uh, inside there you’re gonna see all the connective tissue behind the scenes in Salesforce and you know Right. Have confidence. And this was a big thing when you have new folks come aboard, like, I’ve been in that position myself where like, you know, nothing, uh, I would say nothing kills like a new ops hires ego or confidence, uh, like feeling like they’re breaking something because they’re moving too fast too soon. Or funny enough, like the inverse of that’s also true, like feeling like they’re slowing things down because they don’t see the connected tissue behind the scenes and therefore they’re like not ready to like jump right in and roll their sleeves up and make changes. So I think for us, like, um, you know, having a tool like, so that just is like, hey, like here’s what you need to do. Like here’s, uh, like go make this change.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Here’s everything that touches that thing. So you don’t have to worry about anything outside of that. Um, and like we’ve noticed that ops hires come on board faster because like, again, they can just make changes without having to like stop and pause or, you know, pump fake or anything like that. So I look at these two tools and it’s like what’s gotten people time to value and, uh, like, you know, back to ROI and stuff like that, like that’s a great metric that I think, uh, know I just keep my back pocket around renewal time, uh, in hand, um, around, uh, you know, what’s going on with these tools and like the value that we get outta them as a company.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Absolutely. Uh, I love it. Well, I think the thing that, that I think about, especially on the, the SODAR side, most of the stuff, back to the very first topic, we don’t have always the best documentation on. So you get somebody new it <laugh>, I’m gonna go break something probably because
Speaker 3 (39:06):
What what documentation?
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Word documentation, right? Well, and
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Also yeah, we just, we just name, we just name everything very, very, very well, right? In the, in the, the 80 characters or whatever you’re allowed <laugh> for the, for the flow of the <inaudible> or whatever, right? That’s all the documentation you need. It’s just really rich naming conventions, right?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Sure. Exactly. But I mean, it’s one of those things that we, that we see often that the faster you can understand your business, the faster you’re gonna make a business impact. Point blank. Right? Um, I think that all comes out how we ramp it. Right way, Pete, I’ve definitely want your thoughts on this too.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, I mean, I think the, the, on the new team member ramp, one of the things that, um, that folks get a head faked on from a data driven management standpoint, especially in kind of like non velocity sales motions, right? So like Sendo, I think Sendo so’s, um, as p I want to say is like, you know, in the 20 to 40 K range, I remember like Terminus was kind of like pretty similar, what have you, you know, those are like 90 day sales cycles, 120 day sales cycles kind of depends on the, on how, how beefy the ops are. And so like when you’re bringing on new reps, right? When you’re in that kind of like first 90 days or first 120 days or like, it’s kind of like, uh, how’s it going? <laugh>? Yeah. Because like the lagging indicators, they like, they literally can’t show up mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Speaker 2 (40:31):
For, I mean, at minimum 90 days, but like, you know, you get your first month where you’re doing training or month and a half we’re doing training. Like, so you can’t, like, you’re in that weird kind of like, like area where you’re between one and two sales, like sales cycles. And so if you’re not paying attention to the leading indicators of like, things like new opportunity inflow and customer facing, meeting volume, opportunity advancements and conversion rates or what have you, during that, you’re like kind of just like whistling past the graveyard. And so when you’re hiring a bunch of reps, that’s a really, really important thing to like understand, okay, cool. These, the, the new reps are coming into, especially when you’re a high growth situation where you actually have a cohort of reps that are ramping and then maybe in like month three or four and in order to hit your plan, you’re actually then onboarding the next cohort even while that that previous cohort is still in kind of like the twilight zone. And so having the good leading indicator ramping information is just like wildly, wildly important. It’s actually one of our kinda like most provocative disco questions we say, like, so, you know, how, how do you, how do you go about instrumenting the health of, um, new rep ramp?
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Yeah. <laugh>, like
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Awkward silence. It’s like, oh, you know, time to first deal. Cool. So how long does that take? Oh, you know, we see, wanna see, you know, ops start dropping in like month four, five, or six. Okay, cool. What about in month? Um, 1, 2, 3, and four, and five, how are you tracking success there? And it’s kind of like crickets, <laugh>. Um, so I think like having good, kind of like leading indicators there and then like seeing what that ramp looks like and seeing if somebody’s under everybody else or maybe above everybody else as well ends up being super, super important.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Absolutely. Well, I know we’re, we’re getting close to the top of time, obviously for the folks that are, that are on the call, by all means, we’ll, we’ll save a couple minutes extra to, uh, to answer any questions you have. Uh, but yeah, Pete, you’re, you’re spot on When with the rampant, even some of the, your quote provocative questions, uh, candidly we ask sometimes like, Hey, how often are you breaking Salesforce? And sometimes people don’t necessarily wanna be like, uh, is this call being recorded? I don’t want anybody to know that I’m breaking Salesforce, I’m breaking this, so it’s fine. But you know, ultimately we know what the problems are.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
No one noticed
Speaker 1 (42:43):
<laugh>. Yeah, yeah. No one noticed. So zero times actually, uh, is a way to answer that question. So, um, one thing that we, we had a question come through and we’ll ask this real quick. I know, uh, we’re getting close to the top of time. We, we talked about this at the very beginning um, but any tips to being able to say no? Um, it’s a tough thing, right? And, and nobody really wants to be a no person. They wanna be a yes person. Um, but when you think about that, say no. Any tips of setting expectations for that? I, Pete, why don’t you start <laugh>? I didn’t really give
Speaker 2 (43:16):
The, the way that I like to approach that is to say like, yes, in a way that makes them do it next time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, use that as an opportunity. It’s like, Hey, do you have a resource for X, Y, Z, right? And I’m like, yes I do. Or like, can you get me X, Y, Z? Yes, we can. Here is this self-serve resource, or let’s go ahead and spend 15 minutes where we’re gonna put together a dashboard for you, like, you know, maybe an atrium or, or what have you. And then now what we’re gonna do is you’re gonna have that resource and essentially what you’re doing is you’re like killing that, that ask that recurring ask in the future. So you’re like giving ’em something, but in a way that allows you to, like, going forward it, you’re essentially like saying a micro Yes.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
To enable you to like, not have to say yes 15 times more in the future. That’s, that’s a way that I, I like to do that. Um, or, or kind of like the, the no that is a yes is is the, oh yeah. Here is what is available for you to do that, right? Like, yes, no problem. Here is the way that we can, we can do that. Right? As opposed to like, no, I can’t, can’t do that. That, that, I guess it’s kinda like internal objection handling, right? Like, here’s the better way of, of approaching that. That’s how
Speaker 1 (44:30):
I like, like to approach that. I love that. Uh, Alex drop a, drop a a quick bottle us on that same topic.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah. And I think sometimes it, I mean, how easier or difficult it’s to say no is often depending on like where it’s coming from. So, you know, sometimes the, I’m not gonna say the easier ones to say no are the ones that tend to come from ics. Um, but kind of back to the how do you enable people to be able to answer their own questions? Sure. So one of my favorite, call it deflection strategies, which is a really bad way to describe it, is saying like, someone be like, Hey, can you help me with like, uh, you know, can you pull my win rates from last quarter? I was like, you know, hey, like here’s a report. Like if you want take a stab at it. Bring me whatever you got and we’ll look at how far you got and kind of see how we can pull it up and finish line.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
And the next time the question comes around, they know that like, don’t come to Alex unless you’ve at least tried it yourself first. Like, don’t come, like, we’re not gonna start from square zero, but like, I will help you drive the final 20% of the project over the finish line. Again, if it’s just a simple like reporting ask, which let’s be honest, tends to be a significant part office oftentimes of what’s crossing roads plate. But, uh, I think for some of the more larger and meaty things, um, the hard parts about rev ops is like, you get stuff coming from different departments and sometimes like marketing doesn’t know what, what is coming from finance. And, and it just comes back to, you know, having like at least a backlog that is transparent. So you can say like, Hey, like we got it. Like here’s a bunch of stuff that’s in flight right now.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Like, if this is this much of a priority, we’ll work into the next sprint. That sprint starts next week. Um, I’ll loop back with you once we’ve confirmed that it’s in there and like give you a more thorough ETA of when we can get it done. And I think the more that you have your own house in order, the easier it’s to say like, this is where this slots into the priorities right now. And it’s not saying yes. It’s not saying no either. It’s just saying like, this is where, this is where this sits. Um, and you know, again, if there’s a problem with that, then it’s okay, well let’s have that dialogue around why this is more important than this other thing and go from there.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah. I, uh, I love that. And the one thing I’d tell folks, depending on the, the structure of the question, or you could tell somebody’s coming to you with a an hour long thing or like a a quick thing, but how often do y’all get started with a question from somebody? It’s like, Hey, hey, uh, do you have a quick minute? And I’m like, one of the best things to, to push. Cause you ever know what a quick minute looks like sometimes you don’t even wanna say yes or no. What we even tell folks internally here, best response to that is, do you want five minutes now or 30 minutes later? And it really helps you gauge like, what’s the depth of this question? Like, is the question you’re about to ask me? Can I get log in access somewhere that that’s probably five minutes I can get that done or mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Hey, we need to overhaul this dashboard. I need x, y, z time. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But the silver, the silver lining to that is they’ll probably forget if that’s that 30 minute later they’re probably gonna forget about it or it might not have been fully that important <laugh>. Right? And so this
Speaker 3 (47:09):
Joke, unless someone asks for it three times, it’s not that important.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
That’s exactly it.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Exactly. <inaudible>. But yeah, I
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Know, I know. Uh, I know we’re a few minutes over, but God, this was so good guys. Um, obviously for everyone that yeah, that stuck with us on the call, thank y’all for joining. Um, we’ll obviously be following up with, with resources on this and then how to watch the recording. But um, yeah, Alex, Pete can’t thank y’all enough for, uh, for jumping in. This was fun. Did you guys have a good time? I hope it was. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (47:35):
This was great. It was, it was super delightful. Good to see you guys. <laugh>
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Always. So one of these days I’m gonna make the cross country trip from Atlanta, be back out in San Francisco. We’ll do this in person next time. So, but again, we’ll, uh, we’ll wrap up there. Again, thank you everyone for jumping on, taking the time. Um, hope this was helpful. As always, reach out to Pete, to Alex, myself. Any questions y’all have about sonar, atrium, send Doso, rev ops, all the fun things we’ve covered today. Please don’t hesitate to reach out the way That said, we’ll let everybody go. Have a great rest of your day.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Thanks everyone. See you guys. Take care. Bye.